STEPHEN THOMPSON, HOST:
We wanted to let you know that we recorded this episode last week. That was before Tuesday's shooting in Atlanta in which eight people died, many of them Asian. That news story is still unfolding. And you can turn to NPR News for updates. Now onto the show.
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THOMPSON: "Raya And The Last Dragon" is an animated Disney movie without musical numbers, without romantic intrigue and with a largely Asian cast that includes Kelly Marie Tran, Gemma Chan, Daniel Dae Kim, Benedict Wong, Sandra Oh and more. It is a swashbuckling epic about the pursuit of peace, the need for trust and a young warrior who assembles a ragtag team of misfit heroes that includes the aforementioned last dragon voiced by the great Awkwafina.
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AWKWAFINA: (As Sisu) I'm going to be real with you, all right? I'm not, like, the best dragon, you know?
KELLY MARIE TRAN: (As Raya) But you saved the world.
AWKWAFINA: (As Sisu) I did do that. That's true. But have you ever done, like, a group project but there's, like, that one kid who didn't pitch in as much but still ended up with the same grade? Yeah, I wasn't the one who actually made the gem. I just turned it in.
THOMPSON: I'm Stephen Thompson. And today, we're talking about "Raya And The Last Dragon" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. So don't go away.
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THOMPSON: Welcome back. Also with me for the first time is Laura Sirikul. She's a freelance writer and movie critic. Thanks so much for joining us, Laura.
LAURA SIRIKUL: Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. I'm so excited to talk about this, too.
THOMPSON: Well, it's great to have you. So "Raya And The Last Dragon" is set in the fictional and fallen empire of Kumandra, which has split into factions. Those factions desperately need to work together to face an existential threat in the form of the mysterious Druun, which turns living things to stone. And to make matters worse, the only force that has ever beaten the Druun is dragons, almost all of whom were turned to stone by the Druun 500 years earlier. Basically, "Raya And The Last Dragon" is a quest movie. Kelly Marie Tran plays Raya, who gathers up a group and seeks out the pieces of a broken gem. That gem, if assembled, can restore balance. But Raya, the last dragon, whose name is Sisu, played by Awkwafina, and their pals are pursued by an enemy of Raya's named Namaari, played by Gemma Chan. Namaari's treachery helped make Raya jaded and cynical. Their battles feed into the film's larger messages about teamwork and trust and betrayal and forgiveness. Laura, you've written and talked quite a bit about "Raya And The Last Dragon." What did you think of the movie?
SIRIKUL: Overall, I absolutely loved every aspect of it regarding just the way it looked and the feel of the story and the themes of the story as well as, you know, the characters. Everything just moved so well together. I did wish it was a musical, but it was just fantastic though.
THOMPSON: Yeah, I had a little bit of the pining for songs. To me, it has a little bit of a tonal issue where, you know, it is this very grand epic. It's trying to pack in a lot. And it's - I think some of its efforts to infuse the plot with more comedic elements didn't always work for me tonally. And my only complaint about the visuals is it has a little bit of an uncanny valley issue around eyes and mouths (laughter).
SIRIKUL: Yes, the whole "Frozen" eyes. I definitely agree with that. I am happy to see that other characters, the human characters, kind of share the skin features and, like, other aspects, like, the noses of Southeast Asians and a variety of them. So I did appreciate that. I agree with you on packing so much together. But when I noticed my nephews and my son, like, watching it, it captures their attention. Like, it makes me realize, oh, yeah, this is really for them and for us. But I just love the worldbuilding of Kumandra and the, you know, surprises of Southeast Asian aspects to it. So, you know, I kind of had to pretend that the "Frozen" eyes weren't, like, my main focus. I know, like, because, like, I looked at - sometimes Raya's eyes are, like, really, really big, like, especially when she's a young version of herself. But I'm just like, you know, I'm just going to let this go and just enjoy the story and the world that they created.
THOMPSON: Yeah. Disney just cannot let go of those weird, giant eyes.
SIRIKUL: At least I know what they're thinking.
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THOMPSON: I did find really refreshing that there is now a Disney movie - for the longest time, we would talk, like, make a Disney movie without princesses. You know, make a Disney movie that is not just, like, a princess who finds love and adventure and learns to get out of her shell. Like, this moved the ball down the field quite a bit in terms of advancing what a Disney heroine can be. And it seemed to me to be continuing on the trend in movies like "Moana" that aren't just telling this exact same kind of story the exact kind of way. How did you feel, particularly as a Southeast Asian woman, watching a movie about a Southeast Asian woman?
SIRIKUL: I was so happy. Honestly, I hate romance in general. I hate romantic...
THOMPSON: (Laughter) Just in your life.
SIRIKUL: In my - I just - I'm like - when I watch anything and it has romance, I'm just like, I'm over this already. So seeing Raya, you know, just be her own person and not be led by any man - because with Moana, you know, there is, you know, Maui who's helping her lead the way. But in this story, it's Sisu. There's woman leading woman. And so it was great to have the story of, like - because in Asia, like, you know, there is a lot of patriarchy. But there's also, like - the women lead in many tribes in Southeast Asia and, particularly, my family, too, where, like, my grandmother was the matriarch. It was great to see women empower women.
THOMPSON: Yeah. And, I mean, I think even beyond that - I mean, when you think about "Moana," like, "Moana" is a story about a young woman who has to kind of learn to row a boat...
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THOMPSON: ...You know, and learn to, you know, reach her full kind of warrior-ish potential. And in this, her father is kind of trying to steer her toward gentleness in a way. She is basically born Indiana Jones. Like, she is kind of introduced as a child who was already Indiana Jones. And I thought it did a neat job of kind of inverting some of the arcs of even more modern Disney movies.
SIRIKUL: Yeah. I definitely agree with that because you see she's born to be tough. Like, just from the very beginning, like, you get that aspect of her. And then when her father tells her, like, hey, you know, we're going to invite people, she goes, oh, we going to fight them?
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TRAN: (As Raya) OK. So we're going to need some crossbows and catapults and - oh, what about flaming catapults?
DANIEL DAE KIM: (As Benja) Or how about shrimp paste Tail, lemongrass from Talon, bamboo shoots from Spine, chilis from Fang and palm sugar from Heart?
TRAN: (As Raya) We'll poison them?
KIM: (As Benja, laughter) No, we're not going to poison them. And we're not going to fight them. We're going to share a meal with them.
TRAN: (As Raya) Wait, what?
SIRIKUL: I loved seeing that toughness and her father just tell her, no, you have to learn how to trust. We want to create this world. And, you know, you see hope in her eyes. I really love just seeing that because it shows that, at one point, Raya's able to hope. And so even though we see cynical adult Raya now, it lets us know that she has that in her.
THOMPSON: Yeah. Well, you've written about some of the issues surrounding the casting of this film. They clearly did an enormous amount of research in terms of settings in Southeast Asia and in terms of a lot of cultural touchstones of Southeast Asia. But the cast isn't necessarily reflective of that. Could you talk a little bit about that?
SIRIKUL: Yeah. Like, I know how hard they - Disney went - they went through great lengths to make sure they captured Southeast Asia and the cultures and traditions behind Southeast Asia. They really learned the traditions and everything. Then we find out the casting, that the cast consists of majority of East Asians. It kind of was disappointing to see that. You know, they worked so hard to create this Southeast Asian story and, like, with the screenwriters to the consultants, to the head of story being Thai American, to then kind of be overshadowed by the casting choices.
THOMPSON: Well, you mentioned in one of your essays about a Talon chief who speaks with a Chinese accent.
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PATTI HARRISON: (As Tail Chief) Now, you're going to tell me where I can find those other dragon gem pieces. Or I'll have to leave you outside with that thing. Take your pick.
SIRIKUL: She plays a major role in Sisu's development, where she's walking with Sisu and she's talking to her. And you could hear the distinct Chinese accent because Southeast Asians - particularly Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodian, Laotian - all their accents have distinct dialect to it. So when she starts speaking, I'm like, this is definitely a Chinese accent. Yeah. That was very disappointing, to see the beauty of Talon that is inspired by the Thai flooding markets, the Vietnamese markets, to be diminished by one voice.
THOMPSON: Yeah. In terms of, like, the main voice cast, what did you think of those central performances? I did appreciate the fact that Kelly Marie Tran, who plays Raya, is kind of given, like, this big, swashbuckling starring role after seeing the way she was sidelined in "The Rise Of Skywalker."
SIRIKUL: Oh, my God. Definitely. I'm a huge Kelly Marie Tran fan. And so when she was cast in the role, I was so happy. One, she's a well-known Southeast Asian actress who's very proud of her Vietnamese background, so much so that in her 2018 New York Times opinion piece, she wrote about her Vietnamese side and how she won't be bullied by anyone. And I love that. She's just proven that by doing well and excelling. And kind of the bullies are just going to watch her success. She's so good in this film. There's so much heart to it that I felt so emotional.
THOMPSON: Yeah. So "Raya And The Last Dragon" is streaming through Disney+. And you have to have a Disney+ membership. But then, there is a premium ticket price on top of it of $30. So you have your Disney+ subscription. And then you pay $30, and you can watch "Raya And The Last Dragon." Or you can wait until June 4th. And if you are a Disney+ subscriber, you can watch it, quote, unquote, "for free." You have to be a Disney+ subscriber. What do you recommend people do cost-wise with this movie? Do you think it's worth plunking down the 30 bucks? Do you think it's worth waiting until June 4th? What do you think?
SIRIKUL: See, I loved the movie. And I definitely support watching it. But I understand. Like, you know, it's kind of hard. Like, I do want people to see this film because if it doesn't do well, who knows when we will see the next stories. So I do recommend people, if they can, to watch it. If you cannot, it's OK to wait.
THOMPSON: Yeah. Well, we want to know what you think about "Raya And The Last Dragon." Find us at facebook.com/pchh and on Twitter at @PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Thanks so much, Laura, for being here.
SIRIKUL: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.
THOMPSON: And, of course, thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. If you have a second and you're so inclined, please subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. We'll see you all tomorrow when we'll be talking about the Snyder cut. Yes, we will be talking about the four-hour "Justice League."
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